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MacArthur started out insubordinating.
by J. Ackerman

Truman originally asked MacArthur to do a force assessment and contingency plan. He had no idea that MacArthur would take this to mean he would assume operational command of the entire theater of Korean operations. But Truman let MacArthur have his head. Luckily for him, the Inchon landing, a perilous and complicated expedition, was a success. Still, it was far from the only option. Air interdiction of the North Korean tank corps would have done a great deal to drive the entire army out of the south, as it was their main artillery force.

Later, despite numerous warnings from the Chinese through the Indian embassy in Washington that crossing the 38th parallel would force them to enter the conflict, MacArthur ignored the directives from Washington. Still, the Chinese did not respond until MacArthur advanced on the Yalu River, defying repeated instructions to halt the advance. Overnight, the Chinese poured a quarter million troops across the Yalu. The rest, as they say, is history.

The situation now is barely comparable. MacArthur followed the chain of command, to defy orders; McChrystal is simply illegitimately taking his case to the public. He's not a flack, a PIO.

He's a general beholden to the Chiefs of Staff and the President. He ought to act like one.

Re: MacArthur started out insubordinating.
by MIDAMER
Insubordinating is not a word. Your analysis of the Truman/MacArthur situation could not be more wrong. Do you know what TasK Force Smith was? The distance between assuming command and relief was years not days or months. You have it so wrong.
Re: MacArthur started out insubordinating.
by Planetary Eulogy

Truman originally asked MacArthur to do a force assessment and contingency plan. He had no idea that MacArthur would take this to mean he would assume operational command of the entire theater of Korean operations. But Truman let MacArthur have his head. Luckily for him, the Inchon landing, a perilous and complicated expedition, was a success. Still, it was far from the only option. Air interdiction of the North Korean tank corps would have done a great deal to drive the entire army out of the south, as it was their main artillery force.

Aerial interdiction of armored forces absent total air dominance (which we were nowhere close to having until after the Inchon landings) is difficult with modern precision guided munitions, and basically impossible with the kind of weaponry available in 1950. Hitting hardened point targets like armored vehicles - especially if they're on the move...and shooting back - is a total crapshoot with "dumb" bombs. Even consistently interdicting routes of resupply without a degree of air superiority not possessed by the international force until later in the war isn't all that feasible.

Re: MacArthur started out insubordinating.
by J. Ackerman
Thanks.
Re: MacArthur started out insubordinating.
by J. Ackerman

Criticize my analysis if you like, but I will not brook calumnies against my command of the English language.

Used in this way, insubordinating is a gerundive construction. Look it up.

Re: MacArthur started out insubordinating.
by MIDAMER
Good God. Perhaps in 1876.
Re: MacArthur started out insubordinating.
by Planetary Eulogy

Truman originally asked MacArthur to do a force assessment and contingency plan. He had no idea that MacArthur would take this to mean he would assume operational command of the entire theater of Korean operations. But Truman let MacArthur have his head. Luckily for him, the Inchon landing, a perilous and complicated expedition, was a success. Still, it was far from the only option. Air interdiction of the North Korean tank corps would have done a great deal to drive the entire army out of the south, as it was their main artillery force.

Aerial interdiction of armored forces absent total air dominance (which we were nowhere close to having until after the Inchon landings) is difficult with modern precision guided munitions, and basically impossible with the kind of weaponry available in 1950. Hitting hardened point targets like armored vehicles - especially if they're on the move...and shooting back - is a total crapshoot with "dumb" bombs. Even consistently interdicting routes of resupply without a degree of air superiority not possessed by the international force until later in the war isn't all that feasible. Given American sea dominance and ability to attain local air supremacy for a set piece operation, the Inchon operation was by far the best option available to McArthur for relieving the pressure on the Pusan Perimeter. That it also allowed him to trap and destroy most of offensive striking power of the Korean People's army was just gravy. The operation itself was far less risky than has typically been portrayed in popular legend.

Re: MacArthur started out insubordinating.
by MIDAMER
Again, Good God. Inchon came AFTER the North Koreans were broken outside of Pusan.
Re: MacArthur started out insubordinating.
by Planetary Eulogy

MIDAMER:
Again, Good God. Inchon came AFTER the North Koreans were broken outside of Pusan.

The Inchon landings commenced on Sept. 15 and the Pusan counteroffensive didn't kick off until Sept. 16.

Re: MacArthur started out insubordinating.
by MIDAMER

Your ignorance is laughable, really. What is your source, Wikipedia?

The Pusan perimeter held against more and more desperate North Korean attacks. The counter-offensive was possible due to the defenders having broken the attackers and the inability of the North Koreans to resupply as the LOCs were too long and vulnerable. The Inchon landings cane after the Pusan perimeter was reinforced with mobile formations capable of offensive operations. A pursuit folowed.

Read a real history, please.

Re: MacArthur started out insubordinating.
by Planetary Eulogy
Ther's no question that KPA losses around Pusan had been prohibitive, particularly in the week to ten days immediately preceding the Inchon operation and the Pusan counteroffensive. At the same time, the Inchon landings ensured both a more decisive outcome and helped to hold down casualties among the UN forces substantially when compared to the likely result of counteroffensive launched from Pusan without the benefit of a simultaneous envelopment from the rear.
Re: MacArthur started out insubordinating.
by MIDAMER
You are only partially admitting your error. The Inchon landings were a complement to the Pusan breakout, not the other way round.
Re: MacArthur started out insubordinating.
by Planetary Eulogy
Where has it been suggested otherwise? The fact remains that in virtually every way possible, a breakout supported by amphibious landings to seize Seoul was the best possible solution to the operational problems MacArthur needed to overcome in Sept. 1950. Only a fool launches a frontal assault along a single axis when he has the option of introducing maneuver to the equation at no risk to his own forces.
Re: MacArthur started out insubordinating.
by MIDAMER
A bad interpretation. THe Inchon landings were the FINAL nail in the coffin. The defense of Pusan set the stage.
Re: MacArthur started out insubordinating.
by Leo Harold

I cannot be any more in agreement.

The Chiefs of Staff should demote him no matter what Obama's final decision.

Leo

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